Legislature(2001 - 2002)
02/12/2001 03:40 PM Senate RES
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
February 12, 2001
3:40 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Torgerson, Chair
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chair
Senator Pete Kelly
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Rick Halford
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 72
"An Act relating to 'take-a-child-hunting' seasons for big game."
MOVED CSSB 72(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7
Opposing former United States Secretary of the Interior Babbitt's
rescission of a United States Department of the Interior directive
prohibiting the United States Bureau of Land Management from
considering Alaska land for designation as wilderness and urging
the reinstatement of that directive.
MOVED CSSJR 7(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 72 - No previous action to consider.
SJR 7 - No previous action to consider.
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Wayne Regelin, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5226
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 72.
Mr. Darwin Peterson
Aide to Senator Torgerson
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau AK 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SJR 7.
Mr. Ron Somerville
Resource Consultant to the House and Senate Majorities
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau AK 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SJR 7.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-11, SIDE A
Number 001
SB 72-TAKE A CHILD HUNTING SEASON
CHAIRMAN JOHN TORGERSON called the Senate Resources Committee
meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. and announced SB 72 to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR PETE KELLY, sponsor, said SB 72 establishes a hunting
season to accommodate school schedules throughout the state where
the Board of Game can do it. He explained that the idea came from
his own childhood when he had to watch his big brothers and his Dad
go off hunting sometimes while he was still in school. "We should
be able to take out kids hunting and it shouldn't interfere with
schools even though they will certainly learn a lot of lessons out
there hunting that they couldn't learn in school."
SENATOR KELLY explained that the proposed committee substitute
changes the ages from the original 18 years and under and 19 years
of age and older to 17 and under and 21 and older.
SENATOR KELLY moved to adopt the CS to SB 72, draft L. There were
no objections and it was so ordered.
MR. WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
supported SB 72. "We think it's a very good concept. We like the
idea of encouraging young people to begin hunting." He agreed with
leaving most of the details to the Board of Game. He suggested that
the Board have a two or three day separation between the early
youth season and the general season, so people don't bring their
child along to hunt and then send him home. He also considered a
minimum age of 10 and older.
SENATOR KELLY said he didn't object to a minimum age.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked if UAA would be considered a school in
this bill.
MR. REGELIN said they were thinking more of high school and junior
high.
Number 500
SENATOR TAYLOR said his district has moose, elk, and bear. He said
that deer and goat season starts August 1. Moose is usually
September 15 to October 15 or to the end. Elk was as late as
October 15 one time and now it's October 1 to the end. He said that
animals in Southeast are about a month or so later than in other
areas and asked if that would cause any management difficulties
down here.
MR. REGELIN replied that the Board would take a "real hard look at
Southeast because it is different." He thought the Board would
probably put the issue into Advisory Committees and go through that
process. The Stikine hunt and Berner's Bay are both very intense
because they are strictly a drawing and it probably wouldn't be
appropriate there. He thought they would "have to give elk some
real thought."
SENATOR TAYLOR said they had also encountered problems with proxy
hunting where people are using their two-year old child as a proxy,
etc.
MR. REGELIN said they had experienced that type of problem when
proxy hunting first started. One guy got a proxy permit for his
two-year old kid and that's not what the law is for. At the same
time, if there's a hunter in a village that is a primary hunter and
provides meat for lots of people, he could see him taking 30 deer.
Overall, it's worked out he said. "There's always someone looking
for a loophole."
SENATOR ELTON said he didn't think they needed a bill to do this
and that the Board of Game could do this on its own.
MR. REGELIN replied that they probably could, but this would
encourage them to do it. This will ensure that it's legal to do
something for underage people that is a special privilege.
SENATOR ELTON asked if the Board would be able to implement minimum
age requirements the way this bill is drafted.
MR. REGELIN answered that he thought they probably could. They
would recommend that the Board have people register to see how many
are going to participate and if it's worthwhile, they will issue a
permit in both peoples' names for good records. If the Board sees
abuse, they could fix it.
SENATOR ELTON said the way he reads it, taking a five or six-year
old is an abuse. There's nothing in the bill requiring the child to
hunt. It's just that they accompany an adult hunter.
MR. REGELIN replied that was true and they wanted to leave it
either/or and see how it works. He wanted to leave it up to the
parent. He thought this area needed a little more thought.
SENATOR ELTON responded that he was generally in favor of allowing
wide latitude to the regulatory Board in this instance, but he
wasn't comfortable getting in a position where a father and a son
fly into Turner Lake, set up a camp to go goat hunting, and then
the kid stays in a tent and the adult climbs the mountain so they
can take advantage of an earlier and less busy hunting season.
SENATOR LINCOLN said that she is a hunter and takes children in
Rampart hunting. She thought the youngest person she had ever taken
was seven years old and more often than not they would come home
with nothing. She has always had a problem with the notion that we
have to have a piece of legislation to take a child hunting because
people go hunting for food, not sport. She has problems with
legislation that says they're going to take a child to go and learn
to kill.
SENATOR LINCOLN said further, "If parents want to take their
children hunting, they can do it even during school." They can take
them on the weekend like her Dad did. She also didn't know how the
Board would establish appropriate areas. "Would they establish an
area in and around the Fairbanks area and not in the rural area? Or
would it be in the rural area and not in the urban areas so that
would put more pressure on rural areas."
SENATOR LINCOLN said she is concerned that young people would be
brought along for the hunts and she didn't know if they would have
a great time. There can be vast abuse of the system by having an
early hunt.
Number 1238
MR. REGELIN responded that he thought this would be administered on
a game management or a subunit basis. It's appropriate where the
season starts at or right after school has begun. The intent was to
leave the details to the Board of Game.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if hunting areas would be open for all
residents of the state to go in and have an early hunt.
MR. REGELIN replied during the general season, anyone can go
anywhere by winning a drawing and these seasons would probably be
for five days. It would be open to anyone who is a resident.
SENATOR KELLY responded that the language was not meant to be
vague, but permissive for the Board of Game to work through the
details. He didn't think they should assume abuses when you're
talking about hunting. Most hunters are responsible people. There
is nothing in the bill that reduces punishment for abuses. He said
there are valuable lessons to be learned. "It has the potential to
draw families together with kids at an earlier age."
SENATOR ELTON said he thought the bill went far beyond family, if
you can find someone under 17 that goes with you. He asked how it
would work for Sitka black tail hunting in Southeast Alaska. "Would
this authorize the Board to have a doe season prior to school
opening, since the buck season opens the middle of August and then
the doe season on the first of October?"
MR. REGELIN said the Board can already do that if it were
biologically appropriate. In the case of deer, there's a good month
before school starts. He didn't think they would make any changes
to anything for deer hunting anywhere in the state. He thought it
was smart to put this "privilege category" in statute.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if they were going to open up areas across
the State of Alaska, how would they do that with a $0 fiscal note.
She thought there would have to be earlier enforcement of those
areas.
MR. REGELIN replied that Fish and Wildlife Protection might have a
fiscal note, but he thought this would require a little more time
at the Board which he didn't think was significant enough to
warrant a fiscal note.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked how to respond to someone who is single or
who doesn't have children who will not be able to go on the early
hunt.
MR. REGELIN replied that they could go during the regular hunting
season because they don't have a conflict with school.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved on line 7 to delete "resident" before the word
"child" because there are a lot of parents whose children are not
in-state, but have them up during the summer and would like to
utilize the activity. He also suggested inserting "no more than"
before 17 years of age and "no less than" 10 years of age.
SENATOR ELTON asked the sponsor if he wanted to split up the
amendment.
SENATOR KELLY said he wasn't sold on the 10 years age. He said the
resolution was directed at school age kids. He said he felt better
with 8 years old.
SENATOR TAYLOR amended his amendment to change 10 to 8 years old.
SENATOR PEARCE said she didn't want to go beyond dependent children
and asked if they could make that clear. She commented that when
she was in school, kids would just go hunting.
SENATOR ELTON suggested using language, "resident adult and a
resident or dependent child."
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON moved to change the age from 10 years to 8
years. There were no objections and the amendment carried.
SENATOR ELTON moved on line 7 to insert "or dependent" before
"child." There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if a 16 year old child is taken out hunting by
a resident adult, does the kid have to be licensed?
MR. REGELIN replied, "If you're a resident of the State of Alaska,
you don't need a license until you are 16."
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how the person who is under 16 gets a tag to
hunt if he's not licensed.
MR. REGELIN replied that the Division routinely issues moose tags
to people under 16 years of age.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if they had to go through anything like a
safety course before they could get a hunting license.
MR. REGELIN replied that is required for certain hunts, like bow
hunting and for certain areas in Anchorage. The Board is in the
process of making it mandatory for kids under a certain age to have
hunter education and people over that age will be grandfathered in.
That will be phased in over the next couple of years.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked about non-resident children.
MR. REGELIN replied that non-residents under the age of 16 would
have to buy a license.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSB 72(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
Number 2000
SB 7-CONSTABLES IN UNORGANIZED BOROUGH
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON announced SB 7 to be up for consideration.
MR. DARWIN PETERSON, Aide to Senator Torgerson, testified that in
1981 President Reagan's Secretary of the Interior issued a
directive stating that BLM land in Alaska may not be considered for
wilderness reviews as required by Section 603 of the Federal Land
Planning Management Act of 1976. The purpose of this directive was
to comply with congressional mandates in the Alaska National
Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA). Sections 13.20 and 13.26
of ANILCA are often referred to as the "no more clauses" because
they exempt Alaska from future federal wilderness designations and
withdrawals exceeding 5,000 acres.
SJR 7 was introduced in response to Secretary of Interior Babbitt's
last minute rescission of this directive. It is contrary to an
Interior Department policy that has been an important tool for
management and development of Alaska's resources for almost the
last 20 years. "It was done without public comment or consultation
with Alaska. With the absence of this policy, BLM will be able to
manage its roadless land in Alaska as defacto wilderness areas in
the expectation that Congress will eventually enact approving
legislation," MR. PETERSON said.
He explained after the original resolution was introduced, Mr.
Somerville and Mr. Bill Horn recommended that the title be changed
so it is easier to read by taking out some double negatives. The
first two "whereas" sections are additions and include references
to Sections 13.20 and 13.26 of ANILCA.
He said that the "Whereas" on page 2, line 7 is an addition and
describes the legislature's concern that without this directive,
BLM would be able to manage land as defacto wilderness areas.
SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt the CS to SJR 7, Luckhaupt J. There
were no objections and it was so ordered.
TAPE 11, SIDE B
SENATOR TAYLOR said that the first two "whereas clauses" are the
very basis upon which Governor Knowles sued the U.S. Forest
Service. Those directives from Mr. Babbitt were in direct
contravention of the policy and law set by Congress. He said it is
crucial to the development of this resource based state that no
more wilderness areas be created.
SENATOR ELTON pointed out on page 2, line 3, anyone who tries to
consult with Alaska won't get an answer, but they can try
consulting with Alaskans. He also said that he couldn't imagine
there was a need for the resolution. The new Secretary of Interior
and the President campaigned on the issue of public land set
asides.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she wanted to know if this in any way affects
Native lands. She knows that Native allotments are under the
preview of BLM.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said that was not his intent and the bottom
"Whereas" on page 1 talks about the land being designated as
wilderness and they couldn't designate any Native land as
wilderness.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he thought it couldn't impact those lands
because provisions in legislation that just passed last year
provided for 160 acres for Native veterans and they would not be
able to select those lands from an area that was designated
wilderness.
MR. RON SOMMERVILLE, Resource Consultant to House and Senate
Majorities, commented that they could make an argument for native
allotments that haven't been finalized, but he didn't think it
would affect the eventual transfer of an allotment. Once a review
is started of all 5,000 acre roadless tracts for potential use of
wilderness, those areas will be managed as wilderness until the
process is completed. The inadvertent effect could be lengthy for
80 million acres.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CS SJR 7(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON adjourned the meeting at 4:35 p.m.
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